Church, city taking property dispute to mediation
by Jon Gillooly
November 15, 2012 01:37 AM | 6101 views | 45 45 comments | 12 12 recommendations | email to a friend | print
Roswell Street Baptist Church senior pastor Dr. Ernest Easley, left, and Marietta Mayor Steve Tumlin talk Wednesday night prior to Easley’s address before the City Council to express his congregation’s disappointment with the offer the city has made to acquire right-of-way and parking spots in front of the church.<br>Staff/Emily Barnes
Roswell Street Baptist Church senior pastor Dr. Ernest Easley, left, and Marietta Mayor Steve Tumlin talk Wednesday night prior to Easley’s address before the City Council to express his congregation’s disappointment with the offer the city has made to acquire right-of-way and parking spots in front of the church.
Staff/Emily Barnes
slideshow
Church members, who came in two buses, file into the council meeting.<br>Staff/Emily Barnes
Church members, who came in two buses, file into the council meeting.
Staff/Emily Barnes
slideshow
Roswell Street Baptist Church members unload from one of two buses that delivered them to Wednesday night’s City Council meeting.<br>Staff/Emily Barnes
Roswell Street Baptist Church members unload from one of two buses that delivered them to Wednesday night’s City Council meeting.
Staff/Emily Barnes
slideshow
Roswell Street Baptist Church members line the back wall during the meeting.<br>Staff/Emily Barnes
Roswell Street Baptist Church members line the back wall during the meeting.
Staff/Emily Barnes
slideshow
MARIETTA — After facing a Council Chamber of City Hall filled with members of Roswell Street Baptist Church upset over the city’s proposal to take church property for a road-widening project on Wednesday, the City Council agreed to hire a mediator to try to reach consensus with church leaders.

The road project is part of the city’s goal of making Roswell Street four lanes between Cobb Parkway and the Square, along with installing a median and sidewalks. The city has already four-laned the stretch of Roswell from the Square to Fairground Street at a cost of about $40 million over the last 15 years, city manager Bill Bruton said.

Ultimately, the city can simply condemn the property and take it if the sides fail to reach an agreement, although Marietta Mayor Steve Tumlin has made it clear that would be a last resort.

The Council authorized city attorney Doug Haynie and church attorney Fred Bentley Jr. to select a mediator within the next 10 days.

The Council also appointed a committee composed of Tumlin and council members Anthony Coleman, Jim King and Philip Goldstein to meet with the mediator. Tumlin said the proposal is for the city and church to split the cost of the mediator.

“The mediator will drive it then,” Tumlin said. “The mediator will sit at the head of the table and we will be on one side and they (church leaders) will be on the other.”

The mayor said he hopes the first meeting will be in January.

Sheriff Neil Warren, who is a member of the church, said after the meeting he was encouraged.

“It looks like the Mayor and Council are wanting to get involved a little bit more and hopefully work all this out, because I think everybody wants to do what’s right, and I have all the confidence in the world that the City Council will work it out favorably for the church,” Warren said. “I’m very encouraged. I appreciate the respect they showed tonight.”

Bentley said he liked the idea of a mediator.

“It’s great to see a 7-0 vote that they’re finally abandoning the condemnation and finally sitting down to try to work this out, and I believe they will hopefully now work in earnest, but only time will tell. That hasn’t been the case over the last 10 years,” Bentley said.

Wearing stickers that read “Treat us Fairly!” and “I support my city and my church,” church members packed the council chamber in support of senior pastor Dr. Ernest Easley, who made a plea to the council.

Councilman Coleman helped ease the tension by asking Easley to begin the meeting by delivering the invocation, which Easley agreed to do.

In his address to the council, Easley said for nearly 70 years the church, which has 2,500 active members, has been a good neighbor to the city, from hosting high school graduation ceremonies to serving as the staging area for the city’s annual July 4 parade.

Easley said the church decided about 10 years ago to help restore downtown. Since then it has invested over $14 million on campus upgrades, purchasing a shopping center strip across the street that it fixed up and the old Anderson Chevrolet dealership, which it turned into a staff building.

In addition, the church has paid more than $200,000 in property taxes over the last five years to the city, he said.

“With all we have done over all these years trying to be a good neighbor and to make a contribution to the downtown area to be more attractive I have to tell you I am left puzzled and confused at how the city of Marietta staff has dealt with us as a church for the last 10 years regarding the streetscape project,” he said.

Easley said the city has made five changes to the right-of-way plans affecting church property. And every time the city changed its plans, the church was required to provide it with a new appraisal, appraisals that cost over $20,000 plus attorney fees, he said.

“And you know what’s irritating to me is that’s $20,000 of tithes and offerings that our people have given in order to do missions and evangelism and not to have to pay for plan changes from the city,” he said.

In 2000, the church was told about the streetscape project. Fast forward to 2005, and the city sent a new plan affecting 133 parking spots.

“We offered the appraised amount of $1.6 million dollars,” he said.

The city suggested offering property swaps to lower the cash settlement and offered the cash amount of $500,000 plus some land exchanges.

In 2006, the city claimed that the federal funds were cut so it suspended the offer. In 2008, the city then said it had federal funds and resumed negotiations, Easley said.

This year the church offered $565,000 plus property swaps to get close to the $1.6 million dollars where it started.

The city countered with $365,000 and the church set a date for another meeting to continue negotiations.

“Our administrator called (city public works director) Dan Conn who said that the deal involves only money with no consideration of any land swaps, land swaps that we have been discussing for five to six years, to reduce the amount of cash that the city would pay,” Easley said. “When I understood that that had happened I cancelled the meeting. I told the Mayor that because of the change of all of a sudden a plan that we had been talking about for years, a cash settlement plus concessions, was taken off the table there was no reason to move.”

The next day, the church received a letter from city attorney Doug Haynie declaring that the city would move forward to condemn the property, Easley said.

“Now to show the city staff’s discriminatory actions: The city offered and settled with others who invested in downtown for $15,000 per parking spot,” Easley said, referencing the now shuttered Emerson Coffee Shop as well as the Corona Properties’ lot at the corner of Atlanta Street and Waverly Way.

“The current city plans will take 68 to 90 of our parking spots. That alone, at that value is well over $1 million dollars,” Easley said. “What I am doing tonight on behalf of our church, I am appealing to you as councilmen of this city on behalf of our membership for help. I’m asking for the city to treat us fairly. I have met privately many times with the mayor and shared our concerns, and I know that he is ready to have this settled. The indecisiveness of the city has cost us time, money and it even cost us the sale of the Anderson building several years ago. We started with $1.6 million dollars. We have received offers of $77,000 to $500,000 plus land swaps and agreements. And now we’re at $365,000 with no land swaps or agreements. So what we’re doing is we’re asking you tonight to step in and to investigate and also to challenge the discriminatory actions by those in charge and hold them accountable. I’m asking you on behalf of our church to instruct the city staff to move forward and give us a reasonable and fair offer that is consistent with our past communications, and to also stop the condemnation of the property.”

Tumlin noted after the meeting how well-mannered the attendees were.

“They weren’t whooping and hollering and throwing stuff at us. The crowd was courteous,” he said.

Yet Tumlin said he does not believe the city has engaged in discrimination.

“I’ve never heard discrimination used in that particular way,” he said. “To me, discrimination usually refers to race, religion and color. He talked about a 12-year run, he’s very disappointed, used some emotionally charged words, but the only thing I know to do is just suck it up and move forward.”

Tumlin also said the church cherry-picked two properties where the city paid higher prices than normal.

“Not to get in a big rebuttal because I do want to get a positive start, but they only cited two cases where you had the extraordinary high amount. They didn’t cite 10 or 15 or 20,” he said. “We have a duty to be consistent. They don’t think we were consistent. And I’m going to do my best to find out why is this parking space worth more in this place than in another, and I bet you if you looked at 100 we’re consistent on 95 of them. That’s negotiation. You find the things that help you the most. I don’t think we did anything immoral, I don’t think we discriminated, I think they just cited two cases that make us squirm,” he said.
Comments
(45)
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Big Diesel
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November 16, 2012
@Mackery

Mackery, my comment - as noted at the top of my last post - was directed to 'The Way It is' poster, not to the article or other writers itself. My, "classic Knee Jerk reaction" remark was to the many things he said about me including, "My guess is you do not attend any church. Moreover, the very activities you admonish RSBC about are things you have never been involved in." That, sir, is a classic knee jerk reaction. He/She assumed I did not attend church or do mission work because I disagreed. This is also generally called an ad hominem attack - attacking the person, instead of the issue. I only write this to clarify. I apologize if you read it any other way. The continued worsening of this issue on this post has me bowing out. I will heed to the words of Mr. Abernathy Jones and let you all battle it out. I just wanted to make my position clear. Shalom.
Younger Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Big Diesel

You should direct your remarks at Ole Bro Joe, at least I think he is the one you are saying is knee jerking. I don't think anyone has complained about you attending church, unless you somehow misconstrue someone's remarks? Bottom line is I don't see how any of this applies to the RSBC relations with city government.
Abernathy T. Jones
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November 16, 2012
Brothers and Sisters -

Please tone it down. Disagree if you must, but some of the nastiest responses on here are ironically from church members. Please remember your actions and words are those actions and words that the world will see.
Young Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Abernath T. Jones

Have not seen any comments ironical or otherwise from church members. Incidentally, by what method of identification do you use to determine which comments come from church members or anyone else? Just askin' If anything,the most caustic comments are coming from those who lean to the left. They are easy to identify, because they always resort to name calling, versus a substantive argument.
Marietta Mules
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November 16, 2012
Dear Abernathy T. Jones, based on exactly what information do you make such factual assertions? Please be specific in your reply. Thank you.
Big Diesel
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November 16, 2012
@ The Way it Is:

Classic knee jerk reaction. I have been attending church for over four decades. I have no idea where you gained your assumption/judgement that I do not attend church or participate in mission work of which I do both on the local and global level. Secondly, obviously, I am aware of the fact that the church members are American citizens (you can feel free to cut out the condescending tone, I am not your average stone thrower with no background in civics, zoning laws, property rights, etc). I am confused about what "corporations" they own as you alluded to, however, as a church is a nonprofit. My point, which you missed, while you were busy judging me is the fact that the financial and time cost of bussing hundreds of church members over to a meeting, printing out stickers to 'protect our church per se' etc. could have been much wisely used to follow the words of Christ and do real mission work. This issue could have been handled behind closed doors, instead of this circus. People wonder why Christians get a bad rap. Your anger, judgement, tone and self-righteous comments against me - a fellow believer - are a good place to start.

Big Diesel

Mackery
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November 16, 2012
Wow, calm down Mr Big Diesel. What is a classic knee jerk reaction? Did not see one here from anyone, and that is usually something our friends on the left do when they cast stereotypes. Have you ever heard of a non profit corporation? What is the difference between mission work and real mission work? Never ran into that one before. Why you believe anyone is judging you is not clear. What is going on here, so far, is a free, open, and robust public discussion of current public affairs. Nothing in the current dealings of RSBC with the city has been a circus, by any stretch. In fact, both sides have demonstrated mature non aggressive and legal behavior in trying to reach an amicable resolution. Unless you are a member of RSBC, how they conduct their affairs is of no concern to you, and your righteous indignation is totally unfounded. The problem is the opposite of what you espouse. For far too long, the Christian churches have remained silent in public affairs, which is the way the American left prefers. Now that Christians are standing up for their Constitutional rights the left is taken aback, and in fact, it is the left that is demonstrating the proverbial knee jerk reaction.
Young Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Little Diesel

Your remarks should be directed at Ole Bro Joe, not me. Case of misdirected information.
Circus Clown
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November 16, 2012
Interesting that the word "circus" is used in this thread.

Isn't that the word that Crooks used to describe what the public response would be if proper notice was given regarding placement of a cell phone tower on school property?

His behavior consequently led to a circus of recall, court hearings, whining for reimbursement of legal fees, and finally the public getting screwed paying his legal fees.

Looks like he's taken his show to a new venue? Why isn't he at JFBC anymore?
Old Marietta
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November 15, 2012
If the City wants to get serious about widening a stretch of Hwy 120 why not widen the section from the square out to John Ward Road where it would do some good?

Say what? Oh they already thought about that but the people who own property along that stretch told them what they could do with that idea.

Besides there are a couple of churches out that way that might be negatively affected. Doesnt the Mayor attend one of the churches out that way?
Devlin Adams
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November 15, 2012
You folks are talking like the city if trying to take the property and not pay for it. Far from the cae, they are offering the appraised value. What the chruch is doing, it appears is trying tomake a profit. If they are now willing to take a ltitle a hald a million, but wanted over three times that much four years ago, that tells me that they were trying to make a killing in 2008. Being a minister does not make one above reproach,(Just look at Rev. John Crooks. There's a prime example) nor does being a church entitle an entity to preferential treatment.

Seems to me the cuity has been bending over backward and is further doing so by entering into mediation, instead of seizing the property under the "eminent domain' provsion and pay the church the appraised value.
faithriders
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November 16, 2012
Reread Dr. Easley's remarks. They are not offering the appraised value. They are offering much less and a take it or be condemned offer.
Ole Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Devlin Adams

Your information is incorrect and misleading, at best. What in the world would make you or anyone believe RSBC is seeking special treatment? What you fail to see is that the law applies to the corporate church in the same way as it would to any secular business matter. What I do see in your biased remarks is anti Christian thinking, which is so prevalent in today's Amerika. Oh, and John Crooks is wholly irrelevant in this matter.
faithrider
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November 15, 2012
There are obviously several postings on here by people who know nothing about RSBC. To say we have a bully in the pulpit is outrageous. Dr. Easley is as far from that as you can get. He is a strong leader with a deep passion for the Lord, who fights for his church and congregtion.

I don't understand why some of you feel the church should not be fairly compensated for property that it owns. Is it because it is a church and a church should just give it away? If the city were to come to your home and want to buy it or a piece of your property, wouldn't you want to be paid for it? RSBC is a church home to many people. The family of RSBC purchased the properties with their tithes and offerings. Unless you know what you are talking about you really should not make comments.
Why'd Easley
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November 15, 2012
Hire someone like John Crooks who has caused the community much grief and money?

Obummer
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November 15, 2012
The negative comments about RSBC are coming from the 47% that Mitt Romeny warned us about. Welcome to the Obamanation.
Just Wait
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November 15, 2012
The only thing I'm seeing from Roswell Street Church is a bully in their pulpit. They only seem to be interested in money and that should not be the purpose of any church.
Not Waiting
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November 15, 2012
@Just Wait

Strongly suggest you go back to reading your Daily Kos Kids. Please do share with us what you think is the business of RSBC? Hint, careful now, because every church is also a corporation and has a corporate responsibility. Go ahead and pontificate for us.
SevenOneFour
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November 15, 2012
The church should donate the needed property to the city.

As I understand it, the city is going to spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to make improvements along the church's frontage.

It will improve the aesthetics and the safety of that portion of Roswell Street.

To expect the city to pay for the "privilege" of making these expensive taxpayer funded improvements, which will actually increase the value of the church's property is ridiculous on it's face.
faithrider
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November 15, 2012
Would you donate your property? They paid others for their property, they shouldn't pay a church for its property.
Jacks Be
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November 15, 2012
@SevenOneFour

How much to you donate to your church each month? Nevermind, you don't attend church. If you are not a member of RSBC, your opinion of what they should do or not do is meaningless, and to be more exact, none of your business. I realize you attended government schools, so you were never taught that government entities are required to pay just compensation, when they seize private property for public use. Eagerly awaiting your next entertaining comments.
Watcher...
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November 15, 2012
SevenOneFour, Do you understand the concept of Personal Property Rights?

SevenOneFour
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November 16, 2012
@ faithrider

First of all I pay taxes on my property, the church doesn't.

And if the city was making several hundreds of thousands of dollars in improvements along my frontage that would serve to enhance the value of my property I would try to at least cooperate and be reasonable.

@ Jacks Be

Actually I do attend church (Watermark) and do tithe to that church as well as give to other charitable organizations in the community.

The church's property is indeed private property, but the church does not pay ad valorem taxes on that property. So it is not like a business persons property or even a homeowner.

The key is just compensation. Consider this. If the appraised value aka just compensation is $365,000 and the improvements being constructed along that frontage are, let's say, $300,000 then the church is due $65,000. That makes them "whole".

If the improvements are valued at more thatn $365,000 then the church should donate the property.

Like you said none of my business, but I am entitled to my opinion since my taxpayer dollars are paying for the property and the improvements.

As for your snide assumptions about my education background I will compare my academic credentials to yours anyday. If you take me up on that you better be waving a PhD around.

Hope you are entertained!!

@ watcher

As I stated earlier this is not the same kind of personal property that a business or individual might own. It pays no ad valorem taxes, so it is obviously in a different category.
Little Diesel
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November 16, 2012
Hey SevenOneFour, looks like you are upset with anyone and everyone who had anything to say here. I happen to pay high ad valorem taxes on my rig, so you are wrong on that account. You know 714, I found out something, guys who like to tell war stories and wave medals around are usually fakes. Same could be said for people who wave around college degrees. I once knew a guy who had more degrees than a thermometer, and they were real, including two from Yale. You know, that guy never once told anyone how highly educated he was, never displayed them on a wall, nothing, but he was the real deal. Get my drift? Those who brag, usually are phoney baloneys. Just saying.
faithrider
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November 16, 2012
@sevenonefour...Did you read the article? RSBC has paid $200,000 in property taxes in the past 5 years.
SevenOneFour
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November 19, 2012
@ Little Diesel

Since you don't care for my personalized responses I won't bother to try to address your sophomoric criticisms. Based on your comments you probably don't have the intellect to keep up anyway.

@ faith rider

I don't know this for sure, but if the church paid taxes they were paying it on the commercial property they own that generates income. I am sure they don't, and shouldn't, volunteer to pay taxes on exempt property that the church owns.

In any event my point is that the church, as a responsible community organization, should not be so recalcitrant regarding this issue.

Citizen Sane
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November 15, 2012
Legally (as the entire City staff knows) ONE case of preferential treatment or inflated property acquisition constitutes a PRECEDENT influencing future payments or actions. If this were not the case, then settlements would simply be at the total discretion of the City of Marietta staff.
anonymous
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November 15, 2012
Roswell Street Baptist Church has been a rock in this community, and it's ridiculous that they have been jerked around by city management. Needless monies spent on appraisals, and plans, and negotiation prevents them from doing more good in the community. Enough already Marietta - do the right thing! Be grateful that RSBC is still even located in the city. Look how many Churches have opted to move into the county. Do what you need to do to help his city partner!
Waste of taxpayer $$
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November 15, 2012
This is what is known as "highway robbery"
Big Diesel
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November 15, 2012
Sad to see Roswell Street Baptist putting their resources toward this. Imagine if all those folks who attended the meeting to keep "their" land had been out ministering to other, feeding the poor, comforting the widows, etc. as Christ instructed. Instead, they resemble the very Pharisees Christ preached against and tossed out of the temple - concerned more about "their church's" material issues here on earth.
faithrider
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November 15, 2012
One night taken to support our pastor and our church does not take away from the ministering, feeding the hungry, etc. that we do all year and have been doing for 70 years. I guarantee you there were people doing those things while others were at this meeting. It wasn't about keeping the land, it was about being paid fairly for property that the church owns. It was about them threatening to condemn it and just take it. How would you feel if they tried to do this to your home. Would you just stand by and let it happen? This has a great impact on our church and the services we provide to our community. You should not speak ill of a church unless you have your facts straight.
Way It Is
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November 15, 2012
@Big Diesel

Please share with us what church you attend? My guess is you do not attend any church. Moreover, the very activities you admonish RSBC about are things you have never been involved in. Your sanctimonious comments are entertaining at best. Here is a bit of Civics 101 education for you. The members of RSBC are also American citizens and corporate property owners. As such, they have every right and responsibility to participate in the public process of peaceful negotiation and protest in dealing with government officials.
bermp
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November 15, 2012
"welp, you don't attend church, let alone our church, therefore you are no longer allowed to have an opinion." "you don't attend church and you went to public school, therefore your opinion is clearly dumb and stupid and you're a meany-butt, poop-head." Christians of the south unite! Christians of the world unite. we look great every time we open our mouths about anything "in the world."
Oh Lawzy
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November 15, 2012
I am trying to figure out if the good reverend-doctor is faithrider or Way It Is. Either way, like it or not, public perception is that RSBC has it's own interests at heart...finacial interests at heart. Here is a solution though...open your books and show us that the majority of your money goes to missions and such and I'll bet the community gets behind you.
They Are It
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November 15, 2012
@Oh Lawzy

Here is even a better suggestion. Why don't you come to church at RSBC and find out where the money goes? Public perception you say? Sorry, we are not in the business of selling hamburgers to the public, where perception is everything. Another suggestion, why don't you start your own business or own church, then you can put all your wonderful suggestions into action, instead to telling other people what to do.
Bro Hoffester
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November 15, 2012
Dear Mr Oh Lawzy,

If RSBC were so inclined and were to beg for your esteemed support, please detail what benefits would be derived from such a relationship? RSBC is probably honored that you should have their interests at heart, but as in any relationship, it would be better to know what you want out of such a deal and what you would gain from it? Thank you for your kind words.
Oh Lawzy
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November 16, 2012
@They Are It - I never said you were in the business of selling hamburgers, but you do have a mission to live and love like Christ. That is not evident in your words of response. Take a deep breath and ask yourself if this is a battle that is going to bring glory to God or bring satisfaction to man. And like it or not, the world...i.e. your neighbors in this community will form an opinion not just on your church, but on the Christian community as a whole. Right now, that perception is damaging all of us who support our church and our Lord. Peace be to you. I will comment no further on this.
Little Bro Reichmust
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November 16, 2012
@Oh Lawzy

Speaking of perceptions, somehow you invented perceptions that do not exist and others you misunderstand. No one here said you were accusing RSBC of a misconception or perception about hamburgers or any other fast food. I have no idea where you came up with that information? You who is to be honored, God or man? That's easy, it is always God. You say you support a church, but you never say exactly what church? RSBC, after much prayer, is following the path which God wants them to. What church, if any, are you a member of?
Voice of a Christian
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November 15, 2012
Sad to see Marietta City trying to take the church, or any property owner, to the cleaners over property acquisition/Eminent Domain..but..$14 million in making physical buildings more beautiful (as opposed to spiritual building) would have gone a long way to spreading Christianity around the world..Mega churches create one thing - more cost for building bricks than building Christianity!
Just Sayin'....
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November 15, 2012
There is a better use of your time and money than trying to squeak some extra money out of something the city can take from you anyway. You have had offers that have been higher and I dare say there could be offers that are lower. An appraisal takes many items into consideration, not just parking spaces taken. A slice of land constitutes all sorts of loss for a business property, but when you are looking at the whole of the church property right there, it is simply not the same. Your ability to do the Lord's work will not be hampered in the least. With regards to the $20,000.00 that can be used to do missions, I for one would love to see you use it for that and be a true beacon in the community, rather than a source of contention. I do believe it mentions "render unto Caesar" those things which are his....has this been overlooked???
Not Just Sayin
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November 15, 2012
Oh Puleeese Mr Just Sayin' How about learning what the Bible say first, before quoting it. The bit about Caesar applies to taxes, nothing else. The present case has nothing to do with taxes. You make yourself look very foolish.
Just Sayin'...
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November 16, 2012
@Not Just Sayin'....

Well, back in the day, all property was technically owned by "Caesar", and you were being taxed on your use of that property. Perhaps my understanding of the Message is not as good as yours, because sometimes I would nod off during class at the good Baptist university I attended, but I do know that for every door He closes, He opens another. Perhap RSBC is not looking for the next door and instead is trying to invoke their own will in this issue. I suspect a protracted fight with the City of Marietta is not a good use of time or money....there is a good chance the collateral outcome to RSBC will be a damaged reputation and a diminished view of their mission in the community. BTW, "what the Bible say" is the wrong tense. I did stay awake in English class.
Ole Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Just Sayin'...

Don't know what "Baptist" school you attended, but I suspect it was a branch of MSNBC. If you really did attend some Baptist school, then you should know that RSBC has been in much prayer on this matter and rest assured they are yielding to God's will. Would you have them just roll over and give in to the bullied at city hall? Unless you are a member of RSBC, your idea of how they should conduct the business of God is irrelevant and none of your concern. Why would you be so concerned about RSBC's reputation in the community? If did indeed stay awake, as you say, in English class, then you should have a better grasp of this concept.
Just Sayin'....
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November 16, 2012
@Ole Bro Joe

I like my church just fine, thank you. Our percentage of giving towards missions was almost 50% last year and salaries and maintenance were about 25%. If you are so proud of the recpord at RSBC please share those stats with us. Until then, get off your high horse and look at this as an example of how you have chosen to model your Christian attitude in your response to me. Have a blessed day buddy. I will pray for a quick end to this so that you can get back to feeding the hungry, clothing the poor and caring for the sick.
Ole Bro Joe
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November 16, 2012
@Just Sayin'...

You would have to attend a conference meeting to learn more about RSBC, and I don't know what their rules are, as far as allowing nonmembers to sit in on conference. I don't own a horse, so don't know what you are saying there? You sound very bitter, about something?
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