Separation of church and state intended to limit gov’t
by Nelson Price
Columnist
July 15, 2012 12:01 AM | 824 views | 18 18 comments | 4 4 recommendations | email to a friend | print
The approaching adoption of our Constitution was met with some consternation. It left a major concern unaddressed.

Many of the colonists had come to America from various countries that had state churches, such as Germany, (the Lutheran denomination) England (the Anglican denomination) France and Spain and Italy (the Catholic denomination.)

Some colonies had already established official denominations. There was a groundswell in America against an official denomination.

In Massachusetts, where the Congregational denomination was the official religion, a Baptist pastor named Isaac Backus, contended with John Adams, who was to become our second president, for freedom from denominational control. The idea seemed so unrealistic that Adams said, “You might as well expect a change in the solar system as to expect us to give up our established churches.”

About that time there was to be an election for a Congressional seat. Baptist pastor John Leland was a 5-1 favorite to defeat James Madison, who became know as the Father of our Constitution. The two met beneath an old oak tree in Richmond, Va., at the corner where two streets crossed that today bare their names Leland and Madison Avenues. Their conflict was over the issue related to a denomination becoming the official state denomination under the new Constitution. Leland argued there was no restriction in the Constitution against it. Madison promised Leland, who really didn’t want to run for office, that it he would withdraw he would propose a Bill of Rights guaranteeing there would be no official denomination.

Leland withdrew and Madison kept his word. When the first congress convened in January 1789, early in the meeting Madison proposed the first Ten Amendments to our constitution. The first one put restraints on congress asserting in part: “Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion (assuring there would be no official state sponsored denomination), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (affirming all denominations would have equal freedom of expression in the market place of ideas).

This is the separation of which Thomas Jefferson wrote in his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association dated Jan. 1, 1802, assuring them Baptists and all denominations were protected from government control. The next day, Jefferson attended church services held in the House of Representatives, Jan. 2, 1802, and for years thereafter.

Madison was amenable to the idea of separation in that his mentor was the Rev. John Witherspoon, the Presbyterian minister who was an intimate friend and confidant of President Washington, a signer of the Constitution and Commissioner of the Congress.

As evidence of this freedom that same Congress appointed chaplains for both houses, authorized chaplains for the military, appropriated funds to evangelize native Americans and concluded the inauguration of President Washington with a worship service in St. Paul’s Chapel, an Anglican Church.

On the day they approved the First Amendment, they called on President Washington to declare a day of “public prayer and thanksgiving.”

The freedom afforded by the amendment allowed the two primary text books in the public schools to be the Bible and the Watts Hymnal.

The original Bill of Rights placed restrictions on the state, not the church. The role has now been reversed.

The Rev. Dr. Nelson Price is pastor emeritus of Roswell Street Baptist Church.
Comments
(18)
Comments-icon Post a Comment
Rush To Excellence
|
July 17, 2012
Religion and true Christianity are two very opposite things. To understand the difference is the beginning of true wisdom.
Dr KJV
|
July 17, 2012
People who are truly wise are considered fools by worldly individuals.
Keep The Faith
|
July 17, 2012
Another great column Dr Price! And I see, as usual, you have excited the same three or four societal misfits into their usual hate filled atheistic rages and rants.
EM Buckner
|
July 17, 2012
Nelson Price's standard fraudulent approach, as demonstrated in his latest column--"Separation of Church and State Intended to Limit Gov't," MDJ, 15 July 2012--would require a book rather than a letter to fully rebut. But his central idea is unAmerican and incorrect.

Price develops throughout his column the correct idea that secularism is intended to restrict government, but then he makes a false, unsupportable assertion in his last paragraph, as if he had made that case instead. The original Constitution and Bill of Rights assuredly did, by careful design, limit government. But a crucial limitation on churches was as clearly designed: for the sake of individual liberty, governments are not allowed to make religious decisions of any kind for citizens, and churches are not allowed to use governmental power to further their doctrines.

No matter how frequently and falsely Price denounces it, the original intent of the framers was to keep government and religion from working together to abuse citizens.
North South
|
July 16, 2012
I defy anyone, to show me anywhere any real proof of the existence of a god.
Doc Dentons
|
July 16, 2012
I admire the way Dr Price has the ability to bring out the worst of the atheist left elements in our community. Dr Price, a country Bible preacher, gets the liberal left God haters so wound up that they become incoherent. Keep up the good job Dr Price!
Too funny
|
July 16, 2012
three points here.

1. atheists are not automatically on the political left (case in point)

2. how can someone hate something they don't believe in?

3. and don't take it personally, I'm sure there are thousands of gods you don't believe in either, it just so happens I don't believe in one more than you...
good grief
|
July 17, 2012
I'm sure it will surprise you Doc Dentons but the left aren't atheists nor are they God haters. We just don't believe that God is so weak that he has to use the force of government spread his word.
Patriot For Freedom
|
July 16, 2012
The American left has promulgated yet another lie. For years, the liberal left has repeated the same lie over and over about so called separation of church and state. I defy anyone, even Foley, to show me those words anywhere in the United States Constitution.
Too funny
|
July 16, 2012
First amendment. America is not a theocracy.
Kevin Foley
|
July 17, 2012
Patriot (whoever you are) - What an interesting handle you have. "Patriot for Freedom." No doubt you have a tricorn hat in your closet with your "musket". I defy you to show me where the Constitution says church and state are one.

Since you're all about "freedom," I reserve my right to practice no religion and, if I choose, not to believe in God or gods.

Keep your religion off my government.
why not
|
July 17, 2012
@Patriot For Freedom

I defy anyone, to find any mention of God in the U.S. Constitution. Our rights come from the first three words "We the People" not God the Almighty.
Too funny
|
July 16, 2012
Fast forward to 2012. We now know that germs cause disease, that the earth is 4.54 billion years old, that black people are not inferior to white people, and a whole host of other fantastic things not available to the founders, including the fact that not one of the thousands of available gods in any one of the scores of available religions, deserve any special treatment by the government (we're still battling this one daily).
what the
|
July 16, 2012
To equate support for religion in the public square with love of God is not only an insult to God-fearing people, but also expresses a profound lack of confidence in God and a shallowness of personal faith. How tepid is your faith if you think it can be easily shaken without constant reinforcement by the government. Backus and Leland whould exhort: God does not need the support of Government to triumph.
misterbill
|
July 15, 2012
Rev. Price-

Would that the majority of Americans read your column. For years now , I have heard the people argue that "separation of church and state" from the incorrect and unknowing view that it was to protect the state from the church. If they spent ten minutes of their lives looking into it they would.

This backward view was strengthened by the Supreme Court in Engel vs. Vitale by circuitous thinking stating that since it was a government school, it was a government prayer that students were saying.Thus violating the students' rights in the separation issue.

In later years , this thinking was used when President Clinton argued that it depended on what the definition of "is" is.

However, like most things, the death of religion in America has been hastened by those who wear the cloth.
just sayin
|
July 15, 2012
The delegates to the Constitutional Convention were representative of an era in which political leaders were unlikely to invoke divine intervention, or indeed, any religious basis for the "science" of government and politics. The delegates in Philadelphia were "concerned primarily with 'temporal freedom' specifically, the problem of how to allocate and restrain power in a way that best assured liberty". The pursuit of 'eternal truth' they left to individuals and churches. The vast majority of the Founding Fathers operated on the assumption that temporal and spiritual aspects of public life should be kept separate.

Kevin Foley
|
July 15, 2012
Nice try, Rev, but nobody is restricting you your right to practice your religion. Any suggestion to the contrary is ludicrous.

You insist on trying to make the case for an officially recognized Christian church in America.

No doubt you favor the Baptist denomination.

The Founders intended no such church.

There is no role for any religion in American politics.

Marsha Lake
|
July 15, 2012
Thank you for another thought provoking and inspiring article.
*We welcome your comments on the stories and issues of the day and seek to provide a forum for the community to voice opinions. All comments are subject to moderator approval before being made visible on the website but are not edited. The use of profanity, obscene and vulgar language, hate speech, and racial slurs is strictly prohibited. Advertisements, promotions, spam, and links to outside websites will also be rejected. Please read our terms of service for full guides